Want Stereo Mix on my W10 machine

Tuningmeister

My W10 sound system has never had the functionality of Stereo Mix, and after following many Youtube examples of how to bring it up (seems often hidden, why I don't know) I have decided it is just not there in the drivers. Nothing I do corresponds with the flow seen in the tutorials. I found the Vendor ID 111D and Device ID 76E0 but Device Hunt could match nothing. [HP EliteBook Folio 9470m]. If we can't figure this out, perhaps I should experiment by installing some alternative drivers semi-randomly and seeing if they work? (after setting a system restore point). For certain software of my own devising, I really need this functionality; fortunately I still have my old XP system running with a big monitor, that I use as a 'desktop' system, but would like my traveling machine to have it too.

DougThwaites

Hi @Tuningmeister

The VEN_111D&DEV_76E0 device is a high definition audio codec provided by multiple manufacturers. The best option is to get the audio drivers from the website of the computer manufacturer e.g. HP, DELL etc but if they don't/can't help try getting the codec directly from RealTek.

https://www.realtek.com/en/component/zoo/category/pc-audio-codecs-high-definition-audio-codecs-software

After installing that please run through a YouTube video to help you enable it again which I know you have already done but might need re-doing after installing the codec.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd3moKLV5sE

Let me know if that helps or not and we'll try something else 🙂

Tuningmeister

Hi Doug,
I'm so busy with garden etc that my reply is much delayed. I downloaded the realtek codec and ran it. Nothing really changed, although I note that the driver was replaced with something with a slightly @earlier date. There is no hint of Stereo Mix.
Is it possible the wiring in the hardware simply doesn't allow this???

Thanks,
Michael

DougThwaites

Tuningmeister, no worries on the timeframe.

I don't believe this would be a hardware issue it feels like its more something the Microsoft just decided to conceal a bit more in Windows 10. I will update this post if I find anything else out 🙂

Tuningmeister

I installed both OBS Studio and Flashback Express on that machine, and noticed both managed to have separate inputs for microphone and for what the computer is playing. From what notes I made I see this --- OBS had both Device Audio, which is a clean signal from the computer's output, and Mic/Aux, which showed a fair amount of noise background, and also took in the sound that was playing (guess, the speakers and mic are close to each other). They can be selected separately. So clearly these programs are able to get at what I want - "Device Audio" in this case. I suppose I could dig deep in the open source and find how they are doing it, but it's been many years since I did any programming and really don't want to spend my time with that. Plus I don't do C++, just C and assembler...But this shows it must be possible!!

Any thoughts from this observation?

Thanks so much,
Michael

DougThwaites

Good to see its at least possible, really makes it feel like a driver issue more than a Windows 10 issue but not sure there. I went to the HP support site for your model and noted the XP drivers are different to all newer OS drivers which are the same.

You mention trying some random drivers, have you tried the official but older XP driver?

IDT High Definition (HD) Audio Drive

Tuningmeister

Hi Doug, Now I am totally !%&#ed. I made a restore point, installed the XP driver, found some mention of Stereo Mix, tried all kinds of things, now my functionality is even less than before, I can get no microphone input to my software (or, through the plug-in cable into which I send a signal), etc etc. Or my software won't even open the sound card in certain configurations, saying it is already in use.
So I tried to restore the system and it failed - something about running out of memory before it finished. So I am totally wrecked. only thing I can think of now is to delete some bigger files on the hard drive and see if the extra free space allows it to restore if I try again, but I have no hopes for that.

Michael

DougThwaites

Hi @Tuningmeister, sorry to hear that. I don't think deleting files will help with System Restore failing especially if its running out of memory. Can you just reinstall the original driver? Also what is the software you are using?

Tuningmeister

Hi Doug,
This morning I re-installed the driver from Realtek. It actually came out a little different, and something called "Stereo Mix" actually appears as an option. However, it does nothing for me. It still will not send the sound that the system is playing (such as a music file) to my software.
At least I reclaimed my ability to get input from my pre-amp, however now it seems I must restart my own software with the input selection already made; if I change the selection in the middle of a run it doesn't feed that change to the software, have to close and reopen the program. Hassle but somewhat doable. But still cannot access sound that the computer is playing.

What is the software I am using, do you mean the program I wrote that I am analyzing the input with? I will tell you just a bit.
http://tuningmeister.com/
but to learn about it you can read this page of the tutorial, watch a video of it in action.
http://tuningmeister.com/Tutorial/TMMainWestern.html

There are a lot of other pages but they are just subsidiary to this.

I looked at my code, it's been some years... I use the CALLBACK_EVENT mode in waveInOpen. Anyway, I think whatever method of WaveIn used just gets what the system supplies, which should be determined by the Recording control. But that is so very different in W10 from the Recording Control windows seen in W98 up to XP (which I still run).

I'm sure it will never work unless I dissect code, such as from OBS Studio, and write my own. And I'm determined to stay retired from getting that kind of headache.

Thanks,
Michael

DougThwaites

Hi again @Tuningmeister I am glad you are back to a little more of a known state 🙂

I can't say I am musically minded enough to understand your software and its benefits but nonetheless looks impressive. I can totally understand you not wanting the headache of peeking under the hood of some other software if you don't have too.

If you find out anything else, please update me/this post again.

Tuningmeister

DougThwaites

Hi Doug,
I have Stereo Mix working now. It probably was working for quite a while without my being aware of it.

What I discovered, by accident, was that if I switched to Stereo Mix, nothing happened in TM. BUT when I had closed the program and then restarted it, it now worked. In other words, it accepted the input set-up that existed when it started, and changes I was making to the sound input selection after it opened were not transmitted to my software.
[perhaps I would need to rewrite something, but I don't care]
This was in contrast to the way the program had always performed under W98, and XP. (I have someone else's old W7 machine, and that in itself has some strange behavior). Then, when I changed the Recording Control from say Stereo Mix to say Microphone, the input to TM changed on the fly.

So I can make it work by assuring the setting I want is operative when I open TM.

But with this advance comes the realization that W10 has the same stupid, irritating function that W7 exhibits (now reminded of that by again using this W7 machine too) - namely, that the recording volume is directly influenced by the output volume! Stupid. In other words, I need to have the speaker output at full volume in order to get a decent input level. So I have to turn off my speakers if e.g. I want to record a streaming concert on Audacity (which BTW has its own input control that does allow Stereo Mix, or microphone, or Line In to be changed while the program is running) but practice my harpsichord, I have to silence my speakers. In XP I could mute the output via the little speaker icon, and nothing would change in the volume of the recording.
If you know a way around this, please let me know! We go from stupid to stupider.

I knew Stereo Mix was possible, as using Blueberry free Screen Recorder to make videos of Zoom things I might not watch live, it had a choice to record microphone, or "computer sounds", i.e. Stereo Mix.

I realize, writing this, I need to experiment whether their recording level is influenced by the output (speaker) level.

Well, thanks for helping patiently. Whatever driver I installed most recently, that worked ----- only I didn't know it.

Michael

Tuningmeister

Hi Doug,
I wrote this software because I didn't (still don't, but better) sing very well in tune, and I wanted to see if I could train myself to hear better what I am singing. That's all. Then I discovered, once 6 years of struggle had passed (Windows sound acquisition one of the most poorly documented services) most classical singers (never mind the others) were waaaay more off than they like to admit, thought people would want to correct their inner ear and this would be useful to serious musicians.
NOPE! people run away from the idea as quickly as possible.
TM can't do anything except provide a (hopefully kick-in-the-pants) feedback, to encourage people to keep practicing to find that inner sense of in-tuneness. All the work has to be done with inner experimentation - all it can do is confirm or not whether what you think you are hearing is what is really happening. And no one cares.

Oh, they say they do. but that's just lip service.

Thanks for trying to help me out.

Michael

DougThwaites

Hi @Tuningmeister

Thanks for the follow up Michael, stoked you got it sorted. 😀